Locker

I remember watching a Torq Masters video where an employee said that their locker will immediately be the hardest and strongest point of the drivelne and that the installer must make sure that appropriate upgrades to other parts should be considered when installing it. Perhaps the ADF brace is a start. Some people break their half-shafts when the locker is installed but they also have much larger wheels and are somewhat over-engined.
 
Yah that tyler ferber guy (on youtube) managed to break a cv, but that was with a six cylinder swapped outback and they had the thing butted up against a wall doing a three wheel burnout. I emailed adf, he said the main reason he decided to make these was because he was getting alot of added backlash after he installed his locker.
 
Well cv axle should be then weakest point there and its easy to change and cheap if using used one. But if using locker with planing thinking you wont brake anything. If just pedal to metal for all money then something will brake for sure
 
Yes, @scalman. It may be time to stick to genuine CV axles.

It would be nice to know at which point a Subaru will be over-engined and under-axled, when parts of the driveline will start to break, when a locker is installed. Is it going to be with the EJ25 or the last revision of the EJ204? I am assuming that Subarus are still over-axled with the EJ202 or EJ203. Cheers.
 
The EJ253 gets a lot of torque even at 1200 rpm - around 80% of maximum torque.

Foresters etc also have smaller diameter axles than the XTs and WRXs. These, and the CV joints, are very much potential points of failure. However, all other driveline components must also be considered.
 
When I was looking into lower low ranges I went through the driveline to work out what I thought would break first, and the driveshafts stand out as being the breaking point, assuming I wasn't missing something. But would make sense for it to be the easy to change part.

There are factors other then engine torque that can cause axles to break. Dedmans old SF with the ultra low power 2L was regularly breaking axles when he ran the KAAZ lsd. This seemed to be caused by axles fatiguing when driven normally on road. As the lsd would try to make the wheels turn at the same rate even while cornering, it would add a lot of extra torque through the axle. Then when offroad, the KAAZ lsd would violently lock up and snap the axle.

Will be interesting to see if the auto locker will do the same thing. Since it's only driving the slowest wheel that might be putting more torque through the driveshafts. Changing forces fatigue things faster, so not sure if the ratcheting will cause be problematic. I think unlikely to be an issue, as the ratcheting didn't seem to bad, but I am also surprised ADF feel the need for diff bracing. I guess time will tell...
 
Diff movement is a pretty common problem in subarus --- flogged diff mount bushes.

An refresh / upgrade to all those rear bushes would be a given with driveline upgrades.

The ADF brace is nothing new - laile et al. have had them out for subaru's since Noah was a boy.
 

real short test from 12:30 . hard to tell as everyone picking different lines to pass it , but sure locker makes its much easier to do
 
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NachaLuva said:
Nice comparison but I hate how people exaggerate. He calls that "pretty steep". He'd get a big shock if he saw actual "pretty steep" lol
Click to expand...

I agree, @NachaLuva, Subarus have been getting up many obstacles before the lockers, even though with a different method and a slower overall time.

I actually like the short and concise tests that you and the others here do. The lines are the best ones even with an open diff. That way, the difference with or without a locker can clearly be seen. Cheers.
 
i still waiting for some comparison when it would be : 1. without locker you can't climb there at all , 2. with locker you can . all clear why you need locker , but those situations where you still can pick other line and drive there with open diffs thats not where locker needs to be tested i think.
and noone testing it in deep mud , in deep sand , in deep snow , like in situations where 1wheel spinning vs 2 rear wheels spining would make all difference . So maybe those lockers dont like work that hard then , who knows if noone showed it properly.
locker test whould be something like this , just with different cars locked vs no lockers
 
at last one of our guys put real locker in rear, combine that with long travel custom suspension and its beast
thats how you test locker and show to others
 
another russian guy testing locker . just slick tires , low profile and car sits low . thats not car to go off roading, but locker works anyway
 
@scalman I wished I understand what he said at 22:00 - 23:00 and then near the end when the white fozie (locker?) was in mud.

This is the video of my car while we were out playing at OHV. You can see the advantage of locker vs other awd and ATRACT on the 4R.
 
he said at 22:09 on that blue forester was VDC and it helped him to pass. this guy dont know very much about subaru AWD systems well he just know what he sees , and he was talking before how subaru AWD systems are trash and cant do nothing off road, until he got locker himself , then he just was praysing that locker, could be was payed to do that as well , who knows.
he said yes its electronics helping car so its not fair ... of course it fair , VDC can do a lot. he never drove subaru with VDC before so what he can know about it. and you can do locker+VDC that would work even better.
at the end he said that locker locking with hard punch that id felt on all car body and thats not good, well sure you dont want locker locking on high revs anyway, it must be locked before . he said many things that he thinks he not sure, so yes he dont know.
what he did "off road" in mud in the end any subaru could go there with same result because all 4 wheels where on the ground anyway so you dont loose traction there.

my short test of VDC, yes its not a locker but it works on all 4 wheels not just rear as locker, and it can prevent slides to side because of that , and yes locker would just climb there with easy , but so does VDC did . and that extra torque and power helped too, as my 2001 with 115kw and VDC had more difficulties with VDC killing its power
and wheels lifting in the air so fast because sway bars connected, so without them would be little more better too. but for this project i dont think im gonna removing them as i did with 2001
 
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What I don't understand about VDC is why it isn't more aggressive. If it could brake the spinning wheels a little quicker and more forcefully it would make a heap of difference. I guess then other things would start going bang.

And...
There's just something about a flat six that sounds just so right.
I read somewhere that the Subaru flat six is pretty much just two independent 3cylinder motors bolted together. That might be just the EG33 though as it does have a dual throttle body, not sure about the later sixes.
Yours does sound a bit more civilised than mine, even with those holes in the exhaust.
 
i guess VDC is made for safety and on high speeds , it cant be agressive there i guess . and its about how you using throttle i guess, as im doing it very slowly its working kinda late but it works still. you could make it work more agressive and it would maybe jump more forward, but it wouldnt be safe in my case , and in most cases i think if you care for your car and dont wanna fix something every day. and without any skid plate and with lower tires then it should be it sits low for now. so places that i could easily go over with my 2001 lifted i cant yet do that with this 3.0 .
and VDC in this case lets wheels that lost some grip but still touches ground to spin, its not stoping them, but if they in the air properly then it stopes them faster, so yh its interesting system which i think could be learn better and used better, you just need to know how better use throttle for your advance in situations, because if you hesitate , then VDC doesnt know what you wanna do or where to go , so its not doing proper job.
yes i read too that older flat sixes where just added 2 cilinders to existed motor , but later ones are changed to better. these later ones have proper 3 exhaust ports per head , instead just one on earlier 2nd gen outbacks. yes i like how it sounds as well. trust me when im launching hard it doesnt sound so civilized as there lol . i should record it some time. if i hear it loud inside i just guessing how it sounds outside then hehe. it becomes too much screaming sound more high on higher revs which i dont like very much, i prefer better that lower exhaust on lower revs.
 
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Newer one with Xmode is doing it a bit quicker, but brake based is still not as good and fast. I was in diagonal rutted before and had to use "lot" of momentum to bounce thru the rut and grasp the traction to get out of the steep situation. Also newer subie pair with that weak CVT and torque converter that cut power too soon prevent power going to wheel.

I found the locker helps greatly especially reduce that "running momentum" and dangerous bouncing around when you in tight trail with cliff on one side. Definitely wished to figure out the simulate Center diff lock or DCCD from WRX STI to aid traction to this car.
 
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I just watched the SVRA video of that test with the 4runner. There was a lot of fluid drive with all those auto transmissions in that test.

Some 3rd-party observations/insights regarding the SJ of @daklakfoto :
  • When you were going up the first test, you were at the mercy of your spotter. There may be a better line but backing out is a good idea because you don't want to heat up the transmission fluid while trying different lines.
  • It seems, still, that in the first test, it is an issue with the torque converter, not necessarily the CVT. Try doing the obstacle with older unibody SUVs from other manufacturers and they will also demonstrate the same behaviour.
  • It may also be a factor of how much torque is transferred to the rear. I am not sure if the system locks ratio's in manual mode but it can be one of those things that has been helping older Subarus in those situations.
  • The Torq Locker saves the transmission from heating up in those diagonals. Instead of getting the traction control to figure out what to do while the engine revs, the locker just propels the car forward as the car won't detect much slip and locks up the torque converter more instead of hang the engine with fluid drive. This was mentioned, as well, in one of the videos of one of the Youtubers who installed the locker in an SF.
After test driving the SK 3 days ago, I could feel that the SK has higher fluid pressure and a more aggressive torque converter than the SJ. The SJ feels like it drives on fluid more times than the SK, which is why that feeling of directness is experienced with the SK. It may the explanation as to why many are saying that the SK can clear steeper obstacles much more recently. That performance from the SK might be what Subaru has been wanting to achieve ever since but, of course, they have to engineer things incrementally. The drive felt like the SK's transmission is the CVT version of the more aggressive SportShift JDM 4EATs.

Regarding the VDC demonstrated by @scalman's BP, some claim that they can tweak it to be much more aggressive, however, the on-road performance may suffer as some algorithms are proprietary, so they can only do so much with what's available using the SSM.

EDIT: Sorry for the not too precise post. The SVRA video mentioned the CVT a lot and I am now understanding Subaru's version more and more and I can understand that they preferred the older CVTs to drive on fluid more to protect the chains from being stressed. Now it seems that they lock the torque converter more as they are much more confident with their metallurgy and engineering. Cheers.
 
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