Offroad Subarus of Colorado

Yup. That's moderately difficult for the JK Wrangler Jeeps, so this is a real accomplishment. It is the highest rated trail I have seen any Subaru complete in the US SW.

Still, it is a 5/6 trail on a scale of 10 and it is apple and oranges when it comes to a Wrangler. You can take the cheapest JK trim there stock, brand new, with your kids and not sweat it out. It won't spin wheels or find the rocks big. Would you take there a Subaru with any market value?

In fact, I am still to find anyone other than myself who takes newer Subarus on 4x4 roads with any regularity in the SW. Everything you see on the internet is older models with little market value and often significant mods. Jeeps like that go on 9-10 rated trails, not 5-6.

The good news is that Subaru does not compete with Wrangler whatsoever. One rules the dirt, the other the rocks. I would not trade my Subaru for a Wrangler--or vice versa. I want both though the Wrangler will have to wait a few more years. There is no comparison between the two; each is at the top of its own food chain.
 
MiddleAgeSubie said:
The good news is that Subaru does not compete with Wrangler whatsoever. One rules the dirt, the other the rocks. I would not trade my Subaru for a Wrangler--or vice versa. I want both though the Wrangler will have to wait a few more years. There is no comparison between the two; each is at the top of its own food chain.
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I agree, although wouldn't say Jeeps are at the top. They're not very popular here because they're too unreliable. An 80 Series Landcruiser will do anything a Jeep can but be able to do it over & over again with no breakdowns. A GQ Patrol is even tougher. Apparently the old Jeeps are good though.

I wouldn't trade my Subie either. Even though mine is a very basic 20 yo Forester, it's still more comfortable than a 4wd & less tiring on long drives. It handles great & is fun to drive around town. Plus easy to park.

But it's on dirt roads, soft sand & steep slippery tracks that Subies really shine. We regularly climb sand dunes that even heavily modded 4wds just can't do. Subies ftw! :monkeydance:
 
Yup, I agree. Also, I know Jeeps are not great in Australia, but they are the top dog for the rocky and narrow trails of the US SW, hands down. The Land Cruiser is not and others like the Unimog cannot even fit. There are also some extremely capable US trucks, like the Ford Raptor but those wheelbases are a liability in the SW.

Also, the price of a Land Cruiser in the US is hilarious. I can get a top of the line 4dr Wrangler Rubicon Recon (lots more capable than an LC) and a WRX STi for the price of 1 Land Cruiser. There is no way I have that money and spend it on an LC!

The Wranglers are reliable enough here, the current generation anyway. It is other Jeeps that are at the bottom of the reliability rankings.

The new JL Wrangler will be shown soon. There is a lot to like from what I have seen. They won't match Toyota dependability but if they are just as reliable as the outgoing model, that will be okay. Plus, the Wrangler has a fun factor Toyota cannot match (removable everything, easily modifiable everything with tons of options, etc).

There just isn't much need for overlanding here, which is where LC excels. Rock crawling is more the name of the game, which is where the correct Wrangler trims (Rubicon) have no equal.
 
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MiddleAgeSubie said:
Also, the price of a Land Cruiser in the US is hilarious. I can get a top of the line 4dr Wrangler Rubicon Recon (lots more capable than an LC) and a WRX STi for the price of 1 Land Cruiser. There is no way I have that money and spend it on an LC!
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Damn that's crazy lol.

There just isn't much need for overlanding here, which is where LC excels. Rock crawling is more the name of the game, which is where the correct Wrangler trims (Rubicon) have no equal.
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There are plenty of newer LCs here worth $50-100k with $30k plus of mods but you don't see many of them that get taken out on 4wd tracks. Like you say they're mostly used for touring the outback & towing caravans
 
Back in the 90s I was a big LC fan. Now when I could actually get a used one, I am "meh."

Plus, the last gen US models are not only pricey, but also dialed down on offroad capability. The LC per se comes with open front and rear differentials and a little more minimum ground clearance than a Subaru. In order to get adjustable suspension, one needs to pay for the Lexus version of the thing. It is still made with a 25-year service life in mind, but at that price point, the exceptional dependability and reliability add nothing to a vehicle used in the lower 48 states. For Alaska, or other very large and remote areas, I can understand how supreme dependability = the ultimate luxury. But here? Nope.

By the way, that is the actual Land Cruiser. The smaller and cheaper Prado sells in the US as Lexus GX 460 and since 2013 comes with an approach angle of--wait for it--23 deg, which is what I have with your lift and oversize tires. This is just the bare minimum needed for any actual 4x4 tracks here.
 
NachaLuva said:
There are plenty of newer LCs here worth $50-100k
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More likely $59K (base model Prado) to $120-130K for a Sahara! then add options! :rolleyessarcastic:

I've probably said it before, my son had a Wrangler and it was great offroad i.e. spent more time in the workshop than onroad. But, really, when working it was an awesome machine but getting it home was always the problem!
 
Kevin said:
More likely $59K (base model Prado) to $120-130K for a Sahara! then add options! :rolleyessarcastic:

I've probably said it before, my son had a Wrangler and it was great offroad i.e. spent more time in the workshop than onroad. But, really, when working it was an awesome machine but getting it home was always the problem!
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By the way, what year and exact model and trim was the problem Wrangler? I assume it had a diesel engine and thus an export-only model.

The 2012+ engine and transmission have been pretty solid, though the transmission has a reputation for being very uninspiring, and most problems seem to come from putting overly big tires on low-end trims without strengthening the front axle.

The new, JL/JLU Wranglers will offer the current V6 (only one engine on 2007-2018s, first an awful V6 and then a pretty good one) as standard and will move to a new I-6 in a couple of years. However, they will also offer a turbo 4 and a diesel, the advantages of which I cannot fathom in the US case as it actually gets less payload and the same towing. As for the 2.0 turbo 4, well, there are many people who buy the Wrangler for the convertible experience so I guess it would make sense for them. I do not know why anyone who goes unpaved would want an over-stressed turbo engine on a vehicle that excels in technical rock crawling.
 
MiddleAgeSubie said:
In fact, I am still to find anyone other than myself who takes newer Subarus on 4x4 roads with any regularity in the SW.
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My 2016 Forester plays in the dirt regularly! Family camping trips always involve offroad tracks.
 
MiddleAgeSubie said:
By the way, what year and exact model and trim was the problem Wrangler? I assume it had a diesel engine and thus an export-only model.
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Yep, it was auto diesel and the engine was mainly good. It was a JK series 2008 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport.

 
Kevin said:
Yep, it was auto diesel and the engine was mainly good. It was a JK series 2008 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport.

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I have no idea about that powertrain. If it had the same transmission as the other auto 2004-2011 Wranglers, that transmission was known as uninspiring and happy to overheat. The auto before that was an ancient but bulletproof 3 speed while the auto since 2012 is a Mercedes 5-speed which is reviewed as a quality unit with insufficient gears to bring the best out of the Pentastar V6 that has been used since 2012 (and is considered a very good engine). The next auto will be the ZF 8 speed, which is excellent.

I assume the diesel has a bunch of other components that increase complexity.

I also think those Wranglers had bad ball joints and questionable brake lines. Generally, I would not like a 2007-11 JK at all because of a poor engine, fair transmission, Spartan interior, and general suspicion of the company that produced it... At least since 2012 the powertrain and the interior dramatically improved.

The TJs are very interesting as trail rigs though (again, specific to US Southwest offroad conditions) and I like the 2012+ but they are far too pricey as a % of what they cost new (best value retention you will find in the US). So, here it is best to buy a Wrangler new or try to get a diamond in the rough among the TJs.
 
MiddleAgeSubie said:
I assume the diesel has a bunch of other components that increase complexity.

I also think those Wranglers had bad ball joints and questionable brake lines.
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The diesel was the least of the issues, and yes, it's front wheels were often looking at each other instead of straight ahead. When brand new it broke down on the drive home! A real lemon with no lemon laws for protection and I felt so bad for him as it was his first brand new car. I did tell him not to buy a Jeep but what does Dad know! :iconwink:
 
Oh, that's really a hard way to start listening to dad!

Sounds like a lemon, yes.
 
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